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• #141 ✎ 94 Mr0R305
-the reward for killing the slime is the same throughout the game. For this game, the more op of an item you have, the less you get per slime. So you get 1 ShadowCoin for hitting the slime 5 times to kill him. So if you get a sword, say, it's 2 or 3 hits to kill, you'd get 1 ShadowCoin for every two slimes killed, and so on. So 5 hits equals a ShadowCoin, but the difference is some weapons kill faster making it easier.
So the reward for killing a troll (500 hit points) with 5 strokes of a plasma sword is the same as the reward for killing a slime (5 hit points) with 5 bare-fist punches. (Assuming, by the time the player gets to trolls, his total hit points, armour, etc., and the troll's attack damage, armour, etc., are all scaled appropriately.) The player gets no more measure of accomplishment for killing a 500-hit-point-monster after hours of gameplay than he did for killing a 5-hit-point-monster after 2 minutes of gameplay. Why do I want my players to feel like they're not making progress?
I meant for the slimes. Each enemy could be adjusted fairly and accordingly
Posted
• #142 ✎ 477 SquareFingers
-the reward for killing the slime is the same throughout the game. For this game, the more op of an item you have, the less you get per slime. So you get 1 ShadowCoin for hitting the slime 5 times to kill him. So if you get a sword, say, it's 2 or 3 hits to kill, you'd get 1 ShadowCoin for every two slimes killed, and so on. So 5 hits equals a ShadowCoin, but the difference is some weapons kill faster making it easier.
So the reward for killing a troll (500 hit points) with 5 strokes of a plasma sword is the same as the reward for killing a slime (5 hit points) with 5 bare-fist punches. (Assuming, by the time the player gets to trolls, his total hit points, armour, etc., and the troll's attack damage, armour, etc., are all scaled appropriately.) The player gets no more measure of accomplishment for killing a 500-hit-point-monster after hours of gameplay than he did for killing a 5-hit-point-monster after 2 minutes of gameplay. Why do I want my players to feel like they're not making progress?
I meant for the slimes. Each enemy could be adjusted fairly and accordingly
Do you mean to say that the amount of loot from killing a troll with 5 strokes of a plasma sword will be more than the amount of loot from killing a slime with 5 punches? True/false?
Posted
• #143 ✎ 94 Mr0R305
-the reward for killing the slime is the same throughout the game. For this game, the more op of an item you have, the less you get per slime. So you get 1 ShadowCoin for hitting the slime 5 times to kill him. So if you get a sword, say, it's 2 or 3 hits to kill, you'd get 1 ShadowCoin for every two slimes killed, and so on. So 5 hits equals a ShadowCoin, but the difference is some weapons kill faster making it easier.
So the reward for killing a troll (500 hit points) with 5 strokes of a plasma sword is the same as the reward for killing a slime (5 hit points) with 5 bare-fist punches. (Assuming, by the time the player gets to trolls, his total hit points, armour, etc., and the troll's attack damage, armour, etc., are all scaled appropriately.) The player gets no more measure of accomplishment for killing a 500-hit-point-monster after hours of gameplay than he did for killing a 5-hit-point-monster after 2 minutes of gameplay. Why do I want my players to feel like they're not making progress?
I meant for the slimes. Each enemy could be adjusted fairly and accordingly
Do you mean to say that the amount of loot from killing a troll with 5 strokes of a plasma sword will be more than the amount of loot from killing a slime with 5 punches? True/false?
Yes
Posted
• #144 ✎ 454 MasterR3C0RD Amazing Contributor Someone thinks I'm an awesome person who has done so much for the community! Achievements Third Year My account is over 3 years old Website osu! Is Awesome! I love osu! Express Yourself
I like this idea. I really like this idea
Posted
• #145 ✎ 477 SquareFingers
Do you mean to say that the amount of loot from killing a troll with 5 strokes of a plasma sword will be more than the amount of loot from killing a slime with 5 punches? True/false?
Yes
So early in the game, pressing 'A' five times in battle will earn a certain number of SC, and later in the game, pressing 'A' five times in battle will earn more SC. And, the same amount of effort will always earn the number of SC.
Posted Edited by SquareFingers
• #146 ✎ 94 Mr0R305
Do you mean to say that the amount of loot from killing a troll with 5 strokes of a plasma sword will be more than the amount of loot from killing a slime with 5 punches? True/false?
Yes
So early in the game, pressing 'A' five times in battle will earn a certain number of SC, and later in the game, pressing 'A' five times in battle will earn more SC. And, the same amount of effort will always earn the number of SC.
If hit & killed. Enemies would have to die for you to earn
Posted
• #147 ✎ 477 SquareFingers Okay, now it's my turn to say "It must have been less obvious than I thought". Say I have designed my game as follows: At the beginning of the game, with no equipment, the effort to kill a slime boils down to pressing 'A' five times. Two hours into the game, with the typical equipment a player would have at that stage, the effort to kill a troll boils down to pressing 'A' five times. Either: - The loot is the same or - The loot is not the same. Which is it? If the loot is the same, then the player isn't profiting any more with the plasma sword that he was at the beginning of the game with his bare fists. If the loot is not the same, that makes a lie of your goal that equal effort yields equal numbers of SC. Do you see a problem? Posted
• #148 ✎ 94 Mr0R305
Okay, now it's my turn to say "It must have been less obvious than I thought". Say I have designed my game as follows: At the beginning of the game, with no equipment, the effort to kill a slime boils down to pressing 'A' five times. Two hours into the game, with the typical equipment a player would have at that stage, the effort to kill a troll boils down to pressing 'A' five times. Either: - The loot is the same or - The loot is not the same. Which is it? If the loot is the same, then the player isn't profiting any more with the plasma sword that he was at the beginning of the game with his bare fists. If the loot is not the same, that makes a lie of your goal that equal effort yields equal numbers of SC. Do you see a problem?
Actually option A.
Posted
• #149 ✎ 477 SquareFingers
Do you mean to say that the amount of loot from killing a troll with 5 strokes of a plasma sword will be more than the amount of loot from killing a slime with 5 punches?
Yes
Either: - The loot is the same or - The loot is not the same. Which is it?
Actually option A.
There was no option "A". It would help if you answered using the same language as the question asked. For the purposes of not having the conversation stall, I will assume that you mean that the loot from the troll will be the same as the amount of loot from the slime. Do you want to clearly and unambiguously commit to just one of these two answers?
Posted Edited by SquareFingers
• #150 ✎ 94 Mr0R305
Do you mean to say that the amount of loot from killing a troll with 5 strokes of a plasma sword will be more than the amount of loot from killing a slime with 5 punches?
Yes
Either: - The loot is the same or - The loot is not the same. Which is it?
Actually option A.
There was no option "A". It would help if you answered using the same language as the question asked. For the purposes of not having the conversation stall, I will assume that you mean that the loot from the troll will be the same as the amount of loot from the slime. Do you want to clearly and unambiguously commit to just one of these two answers?
The loot is the same. I hope that's clear enough
Posted
• #151 ✎ 477 SquareFingers
The loot is the same. I hope that's clear enough
It is. Thank you. This system is different from every other game out there, therefore unexpected to the player. The player is making no more profit, after training and equipping his character and performing tasks previously impossible to him, than he was at the beginning of the game. This is demoralizing. There is deflation with regard the player's income, and unless there is also deflation in the shops (or, all items are multipliers rather than adders), this is an unfair economic system that punishes the player for success. As I have asked several times, why should I choose this system for the game I'm developing? I do not want my players to feel this kind of frustration, it is opposite of my goal in game-making: to provide fun. How is this a good idea?
Posted
• #152 ✎ 477 SquareFingers
If coins are much too easy to earn (eg., 1 slime = 100 coins), we're probably going to decline the API request.
In a typical game, a character's stats (e.g. strength, hit points) will go up over time. Any in-game accomplishment gets easier when the player's stats are higher. Accomplishments that are easier must give fewer SC. So, you are saying that: - A player does not get stronger as the game progresses, or - a stronger player does not have an easier time than a weaker player (i.e. 'strength' is meaningless), or - the game has deflation At least one of these three has to be true, right?
Posted
• #153 ✎ 94 Mr0R305
The loot is the same. I hope that's clear enough
It is. Thank you. This system is different from every other game out there, therefore unexpected to the player. The player is making no more profit, after training and equipping his character and performing tasks previously impossible to him, than he was at the beginning of the game. This is demoralizing. There is deflation with regard the player's income, and unless there is also deflation in the shops (or, all items are multipliers rather than adders), this is an unfair economic system that punishes the player for success. As I have asked several times, why should I choose this system for the game I'm developing? I do not want my players to feel this kind of frustration, it is opposite of my goal in game-making: to provide fun. How is this a good idea?
Sorry for the confusion again ':D anyway, for right now as I see it, we are still in development... extremely. We've got encryption down, and CX is even working on SmileBASIC for PC, so you can have ShadowCoins on there with the same SmileBASIC code. However, I feel like maybe we should wait about a month or so for questions, if you're fine with it. If you do so happen to demand answers, I'll try as best as possible
Posted
• #154 ✎ 454 MasterR3C0RD Amazing Contributor Someone thinks I'm an awesome person who has done so much for the community! Achievements Third Year My account is over 3 years old Website osu! Is Awesome! I love osu! Express Yourself
If coins are much too easy to earn (eg., 1 slime = 100 coins), we're probably going to decline the API request.
In a typical game, a character's stats (e.g. strength, hit points) will go up over time. Any in-game accomplishment gets easier when the player's stats are higher. Accomplishments that are easier must give fewer SC. So, you are saying that: - A player does not get stronger as the game progresses, or - a stronger player does not have an easier time than a weaker player (i.e. 'strength' is meaningless), or - the game has deflation At least one of these three has to be true, right?
Well, you could make it easier to get items if you level up. If we make it so that you can do that kind of outrageous upgrades, there would be too much coins being rewarded by the system, and the system would get flooded, thus causing currency deflation. Let me ask you this: What do you think would be better, keeping a max on coins or flooding the system, thus making ShadowCoins useless? We need to assess from every angle. I'm sorry to anyone that would rather it being higher, but we aren't going to allow you to kill a slime in the ending of a game and get 100000 coins. The max that you can earn without effort in a game for ShadowCoins is 300 coins. The max is 10000 if the user is challenged enough. Thank you and have a nice day SquareFingers.
Posted
• #155 ✎ 13 Iceboy1257 Intermediate Programmer I can make programs, but I still have trouble here and there. Programming Strength Zelda Is Awesome! I love The Legend Of Zelda! Express Yourself Video Games I like to play video games! Hobbies Does this cost any real money? (Sorry if someone already asked this, I didn't read all of the posts) Posted
• #156 ✎ 454 MasterR3C0RD Amazing Contributor Someone thinks I'm an awesome person who has done so much for the community! Achievements Third Year My account is over 3 years old Website osu! Is Awesome! I love osu! Express Yourself
Does this cost any real money? (Sorry if someone already asked this, I didn't read all of the posts)
No it doesn't, and actually only 1 person other then you has asked, so you're okay!
Posted
• #157 ✎ 13 Iceboy1257 Intermediate Programmer I can make programs, but I still have trouble here and there. Programming Strength Zelda Is Awesome! I love The Legend Of Zelda! Express Yourself Video Games I like to play video games! Hobbies
Does this cost any real money? (Sorry if someone already asked this, I didn't read all of the posts)
No it doesn't, and actually only 1 person other then you has asked, so you're okay!
Thanks for the quick response, this sounds like a pretty good idea. I actually had an idea similar to this.
Posted
• #158 ✎ 94 Mr0R305
Does this cost any real money? (Sorry if someone already asked this, I didn't read all of the posts)
No it doesn't, and actually only 1 person other then you has asked, so you're okay!
Thanks for the quick response, this sounds like a pretty good idea. I actually had an idea similar to this.
Thank you :)
Posted
• #159 ✎ 477 SquareFingers
Well, you could make it easier to get items if you level up.
Right. I mentioned deflation as an option.
for right now as I see it, we are still in development ... I feel like maybe we should wait about a month or so for questions
These are design questions, not development questions. If there are reasons you can recommend SC for my game, they are in the concepts, not the blocks of code. I will make no demands for answers. I'll just make the observation that of the following three: - A character gains in strength as the game progresses - A character can perform an in-game task easier when he is stronger - The in-game economy experiences deflation proportional to the character's strength the third one is the closest to being 'outrageous'.
Let me ask you this: What do you think would be better, keeping a max on coins or flooding the system, thus making ShadowCoins useless?
Well, it's only fair you get to ask questions of me, too. I think it would be best to have a cap on the amount of currency that can be held by any one character in any one game. That is the way Zelda does it, so it's good enough for me.
Thank you and have a nice day SquareFingers.
It is very gracious of you to remain civil. I appreciate it; I know I am being difficult. I hope, though, I am only being difficult in the ways that this problem you're tackling are unavoidably difficult. I would like to see you prepared for the task. You also, have a nice day.
Posted
• #160 ✎ 454 MasterR3C0RD Amazing Contributor Someone thinks I'm an awesome person who has done so much for the community! Achievements Third Year My account is over 3 years old Website osu! Is Awesome! I love osu! Express Yourself
Let me ask you this: What do you think would be better, keeping a max on coins or flooding the system, thus making ShadowCoins useless?
Well, it's only fair you get to ask questions of me, too. I think it would be best to have a cap on the amount of currency that can be held by any one character in any one game. That is the way Zelda does it, so it's good enough for me.
Well, again, that's the reason why we're adding the tracking API. You can do this in software, which will prevent flooding everything outside. I believe this would fix your problem, and something using this would be accepted.
Thank you and have a nice day SquareFingers.
It is very gracious of you to remain civil. I appreciate it; I know I am being difficult. I hope, though, I am only being difficult in the ways that this problem you're tackling are unavoidably difficult. I would like to see you prepared for the task. You also, rhave a nice day.
It's nice to know you're doing this to help. Yes, sometimes you can be pretty difficult, but you're making us think. It's building us together as a team, which is why ShadowFury is now the CEO of ShadowTech Development, the company we're making to cover all the sides of this project and the others we'll be working on (RICE, SB.Int, etc.). We hope that you will continue to help as we at ShadowTech (ShadowFury, me, NateDogg, and MEGAMON) figure this out too. We'd also be honored if you'd join ShadowTech and help make our team better. You've been a real help so far, and I want you to continue helping, but internally. See you later, ShadowCX11
Posted Edited by MasterR3C0RD
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