? I think I know why the latest contest's results were horrible. (Page 1) ● SmileBASIC Source Forums

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🔒 I think I know why the latest contest's results were horrible.

  • #1 ✎ 96 Sam Amazing Page Hidden Achievements Great Page Hidden Achievements Good Page Hidden Achievements this post is for those who don't like the results from the contest that just ended; that includes me (also it starts with memes but this is pretty serious so please see the memes as a way for me to explain how I feel about the situation) Why do we do contests? Hm? It's to motivate people to do stuff, yeah? So with contests, we'll be able to have more awesome games, right? hahaha *crying-laughing emoji* fLUID CUBeS, MAKE THE CUBES FLOW!! XDDDDD game of the year right there The problem with this last contest is that the point of contests is to make more great, original games show up. But this one just said "hey, look at this concept. cool, huh? too bad no one is ever going to make a game with it now!" I'm guessing people voted for gay cubes because they got wet dreams of a cool-ass game where the floor moves or something (lol) But the goal was to have a game with a cool concept, not just a concept. We're making games here; we're making those wet dreams come to life. Now if someone actually made some game using this mechanic, that would be gold and would totally deserve to win a contest. The tetris game is even worse. That game is already everywhere, it's nothing new at all. Y'all probably thought "aight tetris. this is big. deserves to win" But y'all forgot we wanna see new stuff, not old stuff you can already play anywhere else. You know what? If the thing actually had something original, like moving the tetrominos using gyroscope, it might actually have been pretty cool. here are all of the actual "game ideas come to life" (good or not) SL_SNOWFL; GALAXY_NOMMER; TYPEFIGHTER; LU_SEEDJOURNEY; SIMEON_CIRCLES; RND_STRANDED; SV_CATJUMP; WARM_DESCENT; BM_INSULTYOU; IS_POTATO2; SAVETHEWORLD; SP_CATS_DOGS explanation for entries not on that list: 12_.-TETRIS (Port) NA-FLUID_CUBES (Concept only) PS_HIDE-N-SEEK (Port) JETFLYER_OSP (Game with no goal = Concept only) CH-FASTTERRAIN (Concept only: now please make a game with this) I can give more examples of good or bad entries if it isn't clear enough. Conclusion Basically, even if the concept is super cool and would be useful for people to use later, what we actually want to see is a game being done with it. Can we please stop judging entries based on their apparent potential and start valuing the actual games? And can we please support the innovative ones instead of praising things that have already been done a thousand times? As for my favorite entry, I think SL_SNOWFL should have won for how polished and beautiful it looked, and for being able to make a fun and enjoyable game on top of that. This entry truly is an example of how it is possible to make creative and complete games using only one screen of code. I hope that in the future, more people will be inspired to work on the games of their dreams. Posted
  • #2 ✎ 219 ProKuku Avatar Taboo I didn't change my avatar for 180 days Website Final(?) Contest Runner Up I placed 2nd in the (possibly) final SmileBASIC Source Contest! October 2018 Programming Contest First Year My account is over 1 year old Website I agree with you; I personally liked Galaxy Nommer and Warm Descent more than the winning games, but I must say that you are picking on 12Me21 and Nathaniel quite a bit. You could’ve at least congratulated them on making something as cool (though, I will agree, unoriginal and not being a full-on game) as they did, having only a screenshot of code to do so, before completely going on about how bad they are. I didn’t participate in the contest, so I’m probably not as fired up as you or another participant, but I agree that these rules should be taken into account next contest. Posted Edited by ProKuku
  • #3 ✎ 219 ProKuku Avatar Taboo I didn't change my avatar for 180 days Website Final(?) Contest Runner Up I placed 2nd in the (possibly) final SmileBASIC Source Contest! October 2018 Programming Contest First Year My account is over 1 year old Website TL;DR Posted
  • #4 ✎ 96 Sam Amazing Page Hidden Achievements Great Page Hidden Achievements Good Page Hidden Achievements
    You could’ve at least congratulated them on making something as cool (though, I will agree, unoriginal and not being a full-on game) as they did, having only a screenshot of code to do so, before completely going on about how bad they are.
    I say they're "bad" in the context of having a contest where people compete in making the most enjoyable original content. They certainly are "good" at impressing people; that's not the point of having contests, though...
    Posted
  • #5 ✎ 10 SpiderLily My opinion on this will obviously be full of bias, but the lack of creativity in the winning entries was somewhat insulting to me. At the very least, entries that are a complete clone of popular titles, including the name and music, should not be valid as an entry as they are entirely unoriginal and are relying on the original content's popularity to gain votes instead of on the program's quality. Programs should be allowed to take inspiration from outside sources as freely as they desire, but literally just making tetris and calling it tetris is an easy way to pull voters on your side. The very least that could have been done is coming up with an original title for the game but not even that could be provided. I understand contests are about a programmer's programming ability above everything, but creativity is a skill alongside the technical skills and should be celebrated as an equal. To say I am disappointed is an understatement. I respect fluid cubes as it is entirely original and has some substance, even if there is little to no gameplay and it is not very exciting after the first few minutes. I am not surprised, and I should be glad I even got as much attention as my entry did. However, making contests that favor a lack of originality and substance is harmful to the participants and the contests overall quality as a whole. Tetris should not have been allowed as a valid entry and similar entries should be discouraged or possibly even banned in the future. Posted
  • #6 ✎ 906 snail_ Helper Received for being very helpful around SmileBASIC Source Achievements OSP Contest 2 Contest Participant I participated in the second SmileBASIC Source OSP Contest! Night Person I like the quiet night and sleep late. Express Yourself The "point" is not to make games. The point of the OSP contests is to create impressive programs within the size limitations. Creativity, of course, is always encouraged, and programs which aren't entertaining aren't likely to be crowd-pleasers, but saying we should only make games is limiting our creativity, even. Do I think it's lazy and uninspired to just port an existing concept and make it smaller? Yeah, in a way. Could porting a popular game influence the voting body? Of course. But tech demos can be impressive and creative pieces of engineering as well, and denying that is simply absurd. Do I think some concepts could be iterated on? Obviously, but we only had one screen of space, and you have to take that into consideration. Given the circumstance of the contest, you have to judge entries on their technical merits as well. Even though SmileBASIC is ostensibly a "games" platform first, technical entries have merit in forwarding the experience and technical output of the community, possibly inspiring games which couldn't fit within the OSP size limit. Worrying about "originality" is generally a futile exercise, since nothing has ever been original, since the beginning of time. I really can only think of a couple of times our contests were explicitly referred to as game contests, and none of those were in reference to the OSP contests. Just because the contest didn't produce the output you wanted doesn't mean people "missed the point." Attacking entries you don't like doesn't help either. If you want to focus on a "problem" with the contests, attack the people who submit low-effort entries within the first day (not that there are many, nor do they typically get many votes.) Most of us made a good effort, and that's what should be important. And remember, you're worrying about the community at large as the voting body. I'm not sure what you expect. Posted
  • #7 ✎ 1619 12Me21 Head Admin Second Year My account is over 2 years old Website Syntax Highlighter Received for creating the code syntax highlighter on SBS Night Person I like the quiet night and sleep late. Express Yourself Sam your entry isn't even playable lol You know you're supposed to actually PLAY and interact with the contest entries, not just look at them, right? Whether something is original or not has no effect on whether it's fun.
    You know what? If the thing actually had something original, like moving the tetrominos using gyroscope, it might actually have been pretty cool.
    If I did this, it would not have been enjoyable to play, or possible to fit onto one screen. This is a programming contest, not a come up with original ideas contest. And it's not like writing your own version of an existing game takes less effort than writing something original. The goal of contests is to create programs that are fun or cool or impressive, not to come up with *ideas* that just have potential. This community has no shortage of ideas for games; just look at all the announcement threads for games that are never created. I don't see how this contest is any "worse" than the others. All of our OSP contests are like this. Remember that in the last one, the winners were Frogger and Asteroids. If you want original games, wait for a real contest.
    Posted Edited by 12Me21
  • #8 ✎ 10 SpiderLily Although I mostly agree with your post snail, I have to touch on a problem with it.
    Worrying about "originality" is generally a futile exercise, since nothing has ever been original, since the beginning of time.
    This argument is rather common when discussing the concept of originality and it is probably one of the least valid arguments I have ever heard. You can't avoid being creative based on the idea that at one point in time someone else has a similar thought. Humans would not have made it this far if that idea was followed. Even if theoretically you cannot come up with entirely original ideas, there is still a fine line between stealing and unknowingly copying. Using the limitation of OSPs as an argument isn't very well grounded either. OSPs can be creative, we have many examples of creative games in just this OSP contest alone! Fluid Cubes, Type Fighter, Seed Journey, Simeon Circles and a few others are all great examples of creative entries and should be praised for their creativity, as making something original and fun in one screen is challenging. In an entry for a contest, originality should definitely be strived for. Contests are to bring forth new ideas and programs that would not be made and have no reason to be at any other time. Promoting bad contest submissions influences others to mimic them shamelessly to get their 15 seconds of fame. This results in less actual quality entries in future contests. I don't agree entirely with Sam's argument as it seems like it is more of a rant than an actual discussion starter, but there is still an argument to be made here. Yet again, in my opinion, tetris is a bad example of an entry. Not only is it shameless in its presentation, it completely lacks any form of creative thought backing it. I do not deny the quality of it. It is impressive as an OSP and the programming should be commended but using the excuse that it is 'programming contest' is ignoring the point. Programming contests can still be creative and contests should recognize that. Also, entries that violate SB's own rules should obviously not be allowed. I am not a legal expert, but it doesn't take one to see how the winning entry could be problematic. Whether or not the creator denies it, using the name, even just for the contest, is still using the name and using the same music is obviously wrong on its own.
    Posted