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📣 End of 2017 Programming Contest

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  • #341 ✎ 24 Sagescript Night Person I like the quiet night and sleep late. Express Yourself RNG Hidden Easter Eggs Good Page Hidden Achievements
    Having just now figured out to check the results of this contests poll I have drawn the following conclusions: <snip>
    Please don't use other people's programs as examples of a bad program. It just hurts the feelings of whoever made the game. You can't lash out due to people not liking your game as much as others..
    I think it's perfectly fine to make fun of someone's program when they didn't even put any effort into it. Also, how is this "lash[ing] out"?
    I'm not going to argue with you.
    Those who are offended by what I said could only feel that way if my complaint held any merit- Namely those who put next to no effort into their work when they know they could have done better. I won't apologize for any hurt pride in such circumstances because that was fully my intent. It is also beyond the point- the fault here is with the voting base, because regardless of how you feel on the matter- entries should speak for themselves. Entries such as a single white screen, for instance, should reflect truthfully in the polling results. When it becomes obvious that this is not the case, it robs the contests of the dignity that I passionately feel they deserve, and steps should be taken to restore it. Furthermore, I'd wager money that I am not the only one to be disappointed by such a complete disregard for their skills and effort. Are you discounting the feelings of the underappreciated and skilled in favor of the unskilled and overappreciated? That's symptomatic of the problem I am trying to address. If your takeaway from my post was that I was only upset because people "didn't like my game as much as others", you are either being intentionally obtuse or need to re-read said post until you see the point. PS, if you are referring to my having called SNOW a joke, it is because its creator literally labeled it as such.
    Posted Edited by Sagescript
  • #342 ✎ 113 Amoura Deep Sleep Hidden Website Woah... I didn't know my game was being argued about. Posted
  • #343 ✎ 952 snail_ Helper Received for being very helpful around SmileBASIC Source Achievements OSP Contest 2 Contest Participant I participated in the second SmileBASIC Source OSP Contest! Night Person I like the quiet night and sleep late. Express Yourself If anyone is upset about the contest results, the only people to blame are those patrons who choose time and time again not to take it seriously—both in submitting and voting. I really don't think there are many of them, but they do exist, and I'm a bit disappointed as well. I think the democratic, unregulated approach is the only sane way for the staff to handle voting as it is, considering the limits on the polling tool itself. The only thing I would consider changing is enforcing the one-vote limit, as that is the only thing we really can do feasibly, but I don't know if that would simply make the vote distribution worse. Using a nominated group of judges would simply be another popularity contest, and it's not up to a small group of selected people to decide what the community wants or likes. At the end of the day, the contest really isn't about quality as much as it is what people like; "quality" is a loaded and damaging concept in some ways IMO. However, I understand the concerns about people who obviously are voting for bad submissioms because they think it would be funny, or some other reason. It's not a good thing. I do believe the only way to improve is to change some things in the submission process. It really is imposaible for us to control how people vote, anyway. Not opening submission until a short time after the contest is actually announced is one potential thing to try, as well as vetting entries. Checking the entries is a slippery slope though, because standards of "quality" are vague and loaded, as I mentioned before. A good benchmark is simply clear effort and completeness (i.e. not a white screen.) I also want to point out while a majority of entries are games, these are not strictly game contests and classing certain types of programs above others is unfair. Another potential change is to wait a week or so after submissions end to open voting. I believe we've done this in the past, to moderate success. I do not see the point of doing two rounds of voting though, if only to break a tie. Well, I don't run anything around here and I don't think people listen to me so hopefully someone considers the things I said. Posted
  • #344 ✎ 24 Sagescript Night Person I like the quiet night and sleep late. Express Yourself RNG Hidden Easter Eggs Good Page Hidden Achievements
    I also want to point out while a majority of entries are games, these are not strictly game contests and classing certain types of programs above others is unfair.
    I acknowledge and concede your point there. My intention with bringing up the tech-demo bit, however, was to highlight the unfinished aspect. IMO, bringing any entry to a state of completion should be a primary goal where contests are concerned as it showcases better time management and project planning skill. As for no one listening to you, I don't see that being the case. The fact that I haven't been banned or flamed for sharing my admittedly heated point of view proves, I think, that people (admins included) are willing to entertain each of our opinions.
    Posted Edited by Sagescript
  • #345 ✎ 952 snail_ Helper Received for being very helpful around SmileBASIC Source Achievements OSP Contest 2 Contest Participant I participated in the second SmileBASIC Source OSP Contest! Night Person I like the quiet night and sleep late. Express Yourself sorry for being too lazy to quote I do agree that people should consider completeness. As 12Me mentioned to me earlier, unfinished projects put up for submission are actually rarely finished later. Maybe we shouldn't encourage this sort of behavior, I don't know. There's some scenarios where it might be fine to vote for an "incomplete" program, if all of the tech is there, it represents all of the core experience, and the unfinished elements are story or something else. This might benefit technical showcases. Basically, we should reward solid workmanship if it's there. Of course we can't actually control the voting body (and shouldn't IMO) and they'll do whatever they please. Considering the size (and other factors) of our community things like this are just a sad truth and I don't really see if they would come as a surprise. I should also point out that I didn't vote this time because I didn't get around to playing everything yet. Paying more attention I see that maybe I could have skipped some. 🙃 In all reality I don't really care how the voting comes out unless it's a complete disaster. A bad program never actually wins, it's just that the vote distribution below the top three or so is pretty much random, as far as I've seen. I only care if we get good output from entrants, which we did. The results are just points and sometimes prize money. Posted Edited by snail_
  • #346 ✎ 24 Sagescript Night Person I like the quiet night and sleep late. Express Yourself RNG Hidden Easter Eggs Good Page Hidden Achievements LOL come to think of it, as an American adult, I should have less expectations for any poll. I know that intellectually, anyways. Perhaps its my newness around here, but I honestly expected a poll in a forum full of programmers to be reflective of the traits that normally come with being a programmer- I.E. Logic and analytical skills. Posted
  • #347 ✎ 952 snail_ Helper Received for being very helpful around SmileBASIC Source Achievements OSP Contest 2 Contest Participant I participated in the second SmileBASIC Source OSP Contest! Night Person I like the quiet night and sleep late. Express Yourself Some part (maybe small, I don't know) of the SmileBASIC community (in the West, anyway) is kids just starting out programming, or people only interested in playing the games other people make. Be aware that it was marketed partly as a learning tool, and really didn't get much exposure or literature beyond the eShop or Miiverse (again, in the West.) Of course, looking into our site the output you see is mostly from the slightly more experienced users, but that's to be expected. Not saying this to discount anyone, this is just how it is. Posted
  • #348 ✎ 433 MasterR3C0RD Helper Received for being very helpful around SmileBASIC Source Achievements Third Year My account is over 3 years old Website osu! Is Awesome! I love osu! Express Yourself I think for the next contest, an "effort" requirement would definitely be required. I think it's stupid for jokes to rank higher than games with actual effort. I think a decent idea would be "checkpoints", where projects should be uploaded and tested for progress, and if they aren't really improving at all, are disqualified from the contest. It's flawed in some ways (sometimes life might prevent you from working on your contest entries) but I think it could be somewhat of a help for the quality issue we're facing here. Posted
  • #349 ✎ 1697 12Me21 Head Admin Syntax Highlighter Received for creating the code syntax highlighter on SBS Night Person I like the quiet night and sleep late. Express Yourself
    I think for the next contest, an "effort" requirement would definitely be required. I think it's stupid for jokes to rank higher than games with actual effort. I think a decent idea would be "checkpoints", where projects should be uploaded and tested for progress, and if they aren't really improving at all, are disqualified from the contest. It's flawed in some ways (sometimes life might prevent you from working on your contest entries) but I think it could be somewhat of a help for the quality issue we're facing here.
    I don't think it's a good idea to add complicated rules like this. It would be very difficult to judge whether a project is "improving" (and there will end up being arguments with the creator about whether something counts as improvement, especially if there's not a specific definition). You could also just cheat by uploading older versions of your project.
    Posted
  • #350 ✎ 24 Sagescript Night Person I like the quiet night and sleep late. Express Yourself RNG Hidden Easter Eggs Good Page Hidden Achievements I'm sorry, but if anyone tried even just 2 entries and still chose to vote for a white screen fade, in most logical people's opinions something definitely went wrong with their choice- especially if the results show it besting entries from those who actually took the contest seriously. How is this remotely difficult to understand? If a parakeet were elected as president of the US, in some bizarre ballot SNAFU or the like, it would clearly be the *wrong* choice. I find it *wrong* for the parakeet to be included in the ballot to begin with. Democratic processes have strict running requirements for exactly that reason. The point: in the event of absurd poll results it's more than fair to call the whole practice into question. To argue against that line of reasoning is equivalent to voting for the metaphoric parakeet. We may all have the right to choice, but we should each be held accountable for choices that can generally be regarded as irresponsible or damaging to how polls are being conducted. Alas, I've said all I'm going to on this subject, the dead horse has been beaten enough. If nothing changes, so be it- that's reflective of the general opinion of everyone involved and those whose principles are offended by the practice can simply opt out as I have. I merely wanted to call for reasoning into a clearly flawed process, and people are certainly thinking about and discussing the subject, so I count it as a win regardless. Posted Edited by Sagescript
  • #351 ✎ 306 Minxrod Third Year My account is over 3 years old Website Expert Programmer Programming no longer gives me any trouble. Come to me for help, if you like! Programming Strength Video Games I like to play video games! Hobbies If this forum is trying to encourage 'high quality' entries or at the very least 'effort,' then maybe voting could be broken into multiple categories for something like [polish, playability, preference] to try and get users to decide what games were the most liked as well as most effort or most usable. This way if someone really liked WHITE: THE GAME, they could vote for it as a preference, whereas it clearly isn't very usable or complex. And entries with more effort could be voted for quality, assuming users recognized the effort regardless of whether they like the gameplay or not. Does anyone know who voted for WHITE: THE GAME? Posted
  • #352 ✎ 35 cujo1992 ..... Thinking. Thinking. Thinking. ..... Polls are good things when people need to make a choice about a preference: Pepsi or coke. Flame grilled or flat-top fried. Orange hair or emails. You accumulate a lot of data with different perspectives... and not all of it makes sense from every angle. Moreover - by definition you identify lines of division in a population. Awards when given out by voting are fraught with drama. I recall an early season of "American Idol" with that one guy who really wasn't so fantastic but he kept advancing because of the people who thought it would be funny. (Indeed - it was kind of funny). But - awards that are given by a select committee of experts who publish their decision criteria and hold each other accountable for poor decisions... those usually have staying power. Not everyone agrees with them all the time - but most of the "funny" drama goes away. This community can benefit from both types of events: - programming contests "for fun" every two months (or so) with an obscure theme and people voting on what they simply like. indeed creative joke programs have a place on this forum and can be perfectly acceptable in these formats - programming contests "for real bragging rights" every 6 months (or so) that are judged by a panel of 3 senior submitters who have the right perspective on what Smilebasic is capable of and can set clear criteria for the submittal... Moreover the judges can/should publish a rationale for how they chose the winner(s) so that the runners-up get feedback on what they could have done better. (indeed this kind of feedback is tricky in an open forum like this because people don't want to give nitpicky negative feedback... yet to receive coaching from the likes of CALC84... BRING IT ON) .... food for thought ... Posted
  • #353 ✎ 608 IAmRalsei Forum Leader Hidden Achievements First Year My account is over 1 year old Website Expert Programmer Programming no longer gives me any trouble. Come to me for help, if you like! Programming Strength what the heck i just got 56 notifications from this thread alone Posted
  • #354 ✎ 327 spaceturtles Video Games I like to play video games! Hobbies Avatar Block I didn't change my avatar for 30 days. Website Intermediate Programmer I can make programs, but I still have trouble here and there. Programming Strength
    what the heck i just got 56 notifications from this thread alone
    I got about 30 from it each today and yesterday.
    Posted
  • #355 ✎ 973 Yttria Head Admin ...R-right. I'm going to have to ask that further meta discussion hold until after the contest is over. Posted
  • #356 ✎ 258 ProKuku Avatar Taboo I didn't change my avatar for 180 days Website Final(?) Contest Runner Up I placed 2nd in the (possibly) final SmileBASIC Source Contest! October 2018 Programming Contest Cthulhu Join the cult Easter Eggs
    Does anyone know who voted for WHITE: THE GAME?
    I can almost guarantee 2 of the 4 voters were Random_guy and DSM himself. I don’t have the slightest clue who the other 2 people could be. Perhaps DSM made an alternate account just to vote for his game.(Joking)
    Posted
  • #357 ✎ 408 UnderCake Halloween 2017 Contest Runner Up I placed 2nd in the SmileBASIC Source Halloween 2017 Contest! Programming Contest Intermediate Programmer I can make programs, but I still have trouble here and there. Programming Strength First Year My account is over 1 year old Website
    Does anyone know who voted for WHITE: THE GAME?
    I can almost guarantee 2 of the 4 voters were Random_guy and DSM himself. I don’t have the slightest clue who the other 2 people could be. Perhaps DSM made an alternate account just to vote for his game.(Joking)
    (i would not be surprised though..) lol. ANYWAYS um if you feel this as off-topic just um tell me but ive been working on finding a new name for my project because i dont really like the current name, so ive thought and came up with a random one lol, im not good at telling if things are good so ima just put it out here to see if anyone likes it: Terraverse so yeah if you think its terrible please dont shy away or lie saying its fine or you like it, tell me what you think. but if you do like it then also please tell me. if you have better ideas also please tell me.
    Posted Edited by UnderCake
  • #358 ✎ 608 IAmRalsei Forum Leader Hidden Achievements First Year My account is over 1 year old Website Expert Programmer Programming no longer gives me any trouble. Come to me for help, if you like! Programming Strength EDIT:snipped Picy3's post EDIT 2:re-added a ] i accidentally removed from the first quote
    snip ANYWAYS um if you feel this as off-topic just um tell me but ive been working on finding a new name for my project because i dont really like the current name, so ive thought and came up with a random one lol, im not good at telling if things are good so ima just put it out here to see if anyone likes it: Terraverse snip
    terraverse? but then you'd have to travel between planets and it'd be more like a cross of starbound and terraria than basically terraria EDIT 3: i like this idea. apparently spaceturtles thought i didn't!
    Does anyone know who voted for WHITE: THE GAME?
    I can almost guarantee 2 of the 4 voters were Random_guy and DSM himself. I don’t have the slightest clue who the other 2 people could be. Perhaps DSM made an alternate account just to vote for his game.(Joking)
    (i would not be surprised though..) lol.
    NO I DID NOT MAKE AN ALTERNATE ACCOUNT AND YES I DID VOTE FOR MY OWN GAME.
    Posted Edited by IAmRalsei
  • #359 ✎ 608 IAmRalsei Forum Leader Hidden Achievements First Year My account is over 1 year old Website Expert Programmer Programming no longer gives me any trouble. Come to me for help, if you like! Programming Strength
    I'm sorry, but if anyone tried even just 2 entries and still chose to vote for a white screen fade, in most logical people's opinions something definitely went wrong with their choice- especially if the results show it besting entries from those who actually took the contest seriously. How is this remotely difficult to understand? If a parakeet were elected as president of the US, in some bizarre ballot SNAFU or the like, it would clearly be the *wrong* choice. I find it *wrong* for the parakeet to be included in the ballot to begin with. Democratic processes have strict running requirements for exactly that reason. The point: in the event of absurd poll results it's more than fair to call the whole practice into question. To argue against that line of reasoning is equivalent to voting for the metaphoric parakeet. We may all have the right to choice, but we should each be held accountable for choices that can generally be regarded as irresponsible or damaging to how polls are being conducted. Alas, I've said all I'm going to on this subject, the dead horse has been beaten enough. If nothing changes, so be it- that's reflective of the general opinion of everyone involved and those whose principles are offended by the practice can simply opt out as I have. I merely wanted to call for reasoning into a clearly flawed process, and people are certainly thinking about and discussing the subject, so I count it as a win regardless.
    white the game is slightly more than a white screen fade
    Posted
  • #360 ✎ 327 spaceturtles Video Games I like to play video games! Hobbies Avatar Block I didn't change my avatar for 30 days. Website Intermediate Programmer I can make programs, but I still have trouble here and there. Programming Strength Who says a cross between starbound and terraria is a bad thing? Also terra I think means earth and verse could be worlds like universe but it meantions no space. Posted
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